A dialogue between the CEOs of three Japanese nuclear fusion startups. How will Japan compete with the world’s accelerating nuclear fusion business?

“BEYOND” is an online program that spotlights people and companies that are taking action by capturing “signs of change.”

The 12th is Mr. Akira Nagao (co-founder of Kyoto Fusioneering), Mr. Kazuki Matsuo (CEO of EX-Fusion), and Mr. Akira Taguchi, representatives of three Japanese venture companies working toward the realization of a “nuclear fusion reactor.” Ya (Helical Fusion co-founder) appears.

Partially edited excerpt of the program aired on August 23 (Tuesday) will be posted.

*For the basic principles and safety of fusion reactors, please refer tothis articlefrom.

──Please tell us about the business of each company.

Takashi Nagao (hereafter, Nagao):Kyoto Fusioneering believes that the power of Japanese craftsmanship is universally accepted, and aims to provide innovative engineering solutions to the world.

Rather than making the fusion reactor itself, we have technical capabilities in equipment development and plant engineering for special plants around it.

Matsuo:EX-Fusion aims to socially implement nuclear fusion using “laser” among nuclear fusion. Currently, of course, we are ultimately aiming for a commercial laser fusion reactor, but the laser itself is a technology with a wide range of applications. Right now, I’m in the process of researching and developing the “control” of lasers (for example, hitting a laser on an object).

Kouya Taguchi (hereafter, Taguchi):Helical Fusion aims to socially implement a nuclear fusion reactor that uses the helical method, one of the methods of nuclear fusion. Unlike the Kyoto Fusioneering, we want to make the “furnace” itself, so we are thinking about doing it including the overall design.

──You have mentioned several methods such as “laser fusion” and “helical method”.

Taguchi:In a nuclear fusion reactor, it is necessary to confine the fuel (plasmaized) hydrogen using a magnetic field. One of these methods is the helical method. There is also a “tokamak method” (many European and American ventures are working on it), which is similar to the helical method.

The helical method and the tokamak method differ in the structure of the coil for applying the magnetic field, and have developed accordingly.

──What kind of method is “laser fusion”?

Matsuo:To initiate a nuclear fusion reaction, it is important to create a high-temperature “plasma” (a state in which atoms are separated into electrons and nuclei). In laser fusion, a laser is applied to hydrogen to instantly create a high-temperature, high-density plasma state, from which many nuclear fusion reactions occur instantaneously. It is a technique similar to irradiating lasers on hydrogen, which is the fuel, from all directions.

Founding a company with a “must do” rather than a “can do”

──Why did you decide to start a business using nuclear fusion technology?

Nagao:I understand that Japan’s nuclear fusion technology is world-class.

I want to contribute to releasing such technology to the world, and I want to bring that kind of industry to Japan.

──Where did you meet the co-founder of Kyoto Fusioneering, Professor Tetsuyuki Konishi (at that time) at Kyoto University?

Nagao:We met at a Kyoto University researcher-entrepreneur matching event.

Kyoto University has some seeds (research content) that are sleeping, and it was an event where researchers presented them.

Among them, I intuitively thought, “Nuclear fusion is the only way.” After all, I think that people who work with a smile are attractive, and I honestly wanted to talk to this person, so I called out to them.

──Is that around 2019?

Nagao:yes. I thought that I could create a model by combining Mr. Konishi’s technology and my management skills, so I thought about it for two to three months before establishing the company.

──What do you think of Helical Fusion?

Taguchi: I had a strong feeling that “I have to do it” rather than “I can do it” with nuclear fusion. I felt that the impact on humankind would be very large, and that there was a high possibility of solving the problems we have.

Nuclear fusion still has some technical difficulties, but if we were to start driving it, we would have to start now or we would miss the timing. At that stage, I didn’t see a winning line.

──Why did you choose the helical method?

Taguchi:Our researchers are well versed in the helical method, so there is one thing that inspired us.

There are various other methods, such as laser fusion, but I think each has its own advantages and disadvantages.

If you want to create an infrastructure that can be used as a safe power supply, I think the helical method is suitable for that.

──What kind of encounter did you have with co-founder Junichi Miyazawa?

Taguchi:We met through a mutual acquaintance.

About two years ago, when Miyazawa was thinking about doing nuclear fusion in the private sector, I, who was working at another startup at the time, joined in the form of giving business advice.

──Mr. Matsuo, I heard that you were originally a researcher. Why did he decide to start “EX-Fusion” instead of continuing his fusion research in a laboratory?

Matsuo:The main reason is that I thought that a startup would be the closest path to the social implementation of laser fusion.

When I was a researcher at the University of California, San Diego, I heard from my supervisor, Professor Shinsuke Fujioka, that there were people who wanted to invest in nuclear fusion. For the first time, I thought about how to proceed as a business.

I was also looking at the state of overseas nuclear fusion ventures, so I decided that I could do it in about a week, and started the company.

Business strategy independent of procurement amount

──In comparison to foreign fusion companies, domestic fusion ventures seem to be one or two digits behind in terms of funding. Please tell us about your business strategy, how you will fight with a small amount of funding.

Matsuo:Since laser fusion has many components, we believe that we can compete with a small procurement amount if we focus on one of them. With “EX-Fusion”, we focus on “laser control”.

──How about Mr. Nagao?

Nagao:Certainly, if you simply compare the procurement amount of Japanese companies, it is small. I think it will be difficult to compete with the world if we only look at Japanese investors. As Mr. Matsuo said, I think there is a way for Japan to compete by devising business methods.

However, in the first place, people in this industry have the desire to “realize nuclear fusion” first, and there are few people who want to “make their own company successful”.

Laser for miniaturization, helical for large size and stability. It is an image of creating a single industry by working together and using them according to the situation. If you use different technologies and cooperate, I think you don’t necessarily have to rely on the amount of money raised.

On the other hand, as long as we use Japanese technology, I think it is necessary to do business while ascertaining what kind of benefits Japan can gain.

Taguchi:Deep tech is a field with long legs and high uncertainty, so compared to the United States, Japan is tougher. Therefore, there are business strategies such as selling components or making sales from engineering, and I think it is possible to go to overseas investors instead of Japan.

However, since we are using Japanese technology, there is also a feeling that if possible, we would like to do it in Japan. That’s why I’m grateful that Japan has a system to back it up and a mindset.

Government and Private Sector Join Forces to Implement Nuclear Fusion Reactor

──Nuclear fusion in FranceInternational joint project “ITER”are moving forward, private companies such as ventures are emerging. How do you perceive the difference between this international joint project and the role of the private sector?

Matsuo:First of all, the current nuclear fusion technology has matured, and I think that 70% of the scientific knowledge is about how it can be realized. Is it a state that all you have to do is push forward with development research?

For that reason, I think that more and more people think that it is faster to do it in the private sector if it is just development, as is the case with our company’s laser fusion.

──Mr. Taguchi and Mr. Nagao are involved in the magnetic confinement type nuclear fusion reactor. What do you think of this move?

Taguchi:International joint projects are certainly leading the way, but I think there is a different meaning to doing them in the private sector. Since each method has advantages and disadvantages, there should be a variety of methods.

In addition, government projects such as international joint projects require certainty, which makes it difficult to introduce new ideas and technologies. In the private sector, it is easy to introduce new innovations in a flexible manner, so I believe that the private sector can take on such challenges and reinforce (results of international projects).

──The government and the private sector do not clash, but work well together to build a fusion reactor.

Taguchi:I agree. It is important to implement nuclear fusion energy as soon as possible, so I think that should be the case.

──What do you think, Mr. Nagao?

Nagao:I agree with Mr. Taguchi.

In addition, I think that fusion startups will soon find it difficult to create new companies.

I believe that sooner or later we will enter a phase in which we will consolidate into a somewhat strong company after the period of explosive growth that we experienced in the Cambrian period as an organism.

──Lastly, please tell us about the challenges you want to face in the future and your enthusiasm.

Taguchi:As a Japanese nuclear fusion venture, Mr. Nagao and Mr. Matsuo would like to work together as a monolith to bring excitement to the realization of nuclear fusion.

Matsuo:Nuclear fusion has recently started to attract attention, but the technology has a long history and is based on many research results.

I would like to do my best to realize it as soon as possible, including the thoughts of those people.

Nagao:I feel that nuclear fusion is a technical area that is difficult to recognize because the word “nucleus” precedes it. On the one hand, it has potential. I think that it is one of the technologies that Japan, which is poor in energy, must realize.

Now that the realization of nuclear fusion has finally come into view, it is necessary for the younger generation to take over the research and technology that have been accumulated over the long history, and to become active.

If you are a young person who is interested in taking on the challenge of nuclear fusion, I would be very happy if you could contact any of these three companies.

(Interviewer: Takashi Mitsumura, Composition: Ikkaku Benino)

From 19:00 on August 31, 2022 (Wednesday), Next Commons Lab Founder and Representative Director Atsushi Hayashi will be invited as a guest, and we will deliver “What does it mean to use blockchain in rural areas?”

What is “BEYOND”?

Scheduled to be delivered every Wednesday from 19:00. Business, technology, SDGs, work style… Business Insider Japan’s reporter/editor interviews people who challenge themselves to create a new future without being bound by preconceived notions. Through dialogue with reporters, we will dig deeper into the origins of the challenge, current initiatives, and the future we want to create.

The archive will be published in a playlist on our YouTube channel.